I’ve been waiting for the right moment to address this issue, and thanks to a pair of Brians, now is the time. Brian Watkins wrote a very interesting column for Insider Racing News on this very issue. It’s a good read and I recommend it. The article was inspired by a visit Toyota driver Brian Vickers paid to the Fox Business Channel this week. While this is not the burning issue it may have been three seasons ago, I’m still surprised at how many people loathe Toyota’s presence in NASCAR Cup racing.
Let me first of all make one things clear. I will not be challenged on my patriotism. My father served in the USAF from 1956- 1960 as an airplane mechanic. I believe in American exceptionalism (I believe the USA is the greatest country on God’s green Earth), conservative political values (the government that governs best governs least) and the free enterprise system.
That’s why I support the presence of Toyota in NASCAR. In fact, one of the best cars I ever owned was a 1990 Toyota Celica I darn near drove the wheels off of as an outside salesman. I have a Toyota Sienna mini van parked in my driveway as I post this. Why? Because it’s a good vehicle and has been in the two years I’ve owned it.
If, in my opinion, Chevrolet, Ford or Dodge make a car that surpasses what I have now…I’LL BUY IT! Nobody’s holding a gun to my head to choose one or the other.
That same father of mine I told you about was a fiercely proud owner of American cars. We were generally a Ford family: the Gran Torino, Ford pick-ups, etc. A 1966 Ford Mustang was my teen project car. I still have photographs of a 1960 Pontiac, a 1963 Pontiac Grand Prix, a 1956 Chevy, and a ‘57 Chevy. All great cars. Heck, as a kid, my dad took apart and rebuilt a For Model “T” for fun.
Our progression to the “dark side” came in the late 1980s. My younger sister bought a Datsun 280-Z and she let my father drive it. he was ruined for life after that. Suddenly the new speech from my dad when buying a new car was “Oh those Nissans, Toyotas and Hondas, they get great gas mileage and they’ll run forever if you take care of them.”
In my experience, he’s been proven right.
You see, competition is what makes America great! So why shut out Toyota or any other make of “foreign origin” from NASCAR? If Chevys or Fords are better than a Toyota, let’s prove it…..on the track and not in the office or the court of public opinion.
Back in the 50s, when the auto industry looked a world different than it does today, the exclusion of foreign makes to some degree made sense. American cars were really American cars. Foreign cars were really foreign. Today the lines are all blurred.
The “new car” blurs those lines all the more. As far as that goes, the previous generation car didn’t bear much resemblance to any car I can buy off the showroom floor today. When it comes to NASCAR, about all we’re really talking about is the difference underneath the hood.
I have heard the concerns about NASCAR becoming another IRL. Well, I think thanks to you traditionalists who champion and cheer for the Bowties and the Blue Ovals (I’m still a Ford guy at heart to a certain degree), the automakers will stick around as long as they can. Of course, there’s a part of the problem. There’s no telling what all of this is going to look like in 5 years. I hope the “Big Three” is still around and we’re still having this debate then.
I’ll concede it does seem a bit odd- the idea of Toyota in NASCAR. They never produced anything “back in the day” that would bear even the slightest resemblance to an old Mustang, Chevelle or old school Charger. But what about today? I just think the era of “What wins on Sunday, sells on Monday” is just flat out gone- and it’s been gone for some time.
On the issue of American made, I’ll also add this: you know we were all foreigners once. My ancestors go back anywhere from 150 to 250 years in this country, and yet I can still trace my roots back to foreign soil: Ireland, England, France and Germany. The great thing about the United States of America is someone can come here from anywhere, work hard to produce a good product or service, and if they work hard enough to make a better product than the other guy they’ll succeed.
Isn’t competition what our economic system built on? How can there be competition if you shut people out? If they play by the rules, I say let ‘em all in. If you’re faster than me, prove it!
In my humble opinion, THAT is American thinking.
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Our government gives the Japs free roads, railways, discount loans to build here, lower property taxes then allows them to import all of the parts produced in Japan duty free and on top of that, the finished product is taxed 15% less than the American made product. Our government is forcing American companies to relocate over seas due to the unfairly applied taxes etc. If some one comes into my office for a job interview at the conclusion of the interview I will walk that person to the parking lot, if they are driving a Jap car etc. they get 20 points removed from there application. What do you think the Japs do to American made products? It damn sure is not what happens in the states.
@Sam. I profess no expertise when it comes to trade agreements, so I won’t even attempt to counter your argument. By the same token- what do you do about public demand for a product? Wouldn’t you agree if Americans weren’t buying “foreign” cars they would wouldn’t be here, regardless of their tax advantages?
I don’t know your line of work, and as far as I’m concerned, you are free to hire whomever you choose. If I were one of your potential gire, I’d be bummed about discrimination based on the kind of car I drive, but then again, I suspect we wouldn’t co-exist that well anyway.
Jim, As a 60 year old Vietnam veteran and patriotic American, I find your way of “American thinking” to be part of the problem we are now experiencing in the U.S. Certainly, the Big 3 has been outsourcing product and labor for many years, but until Daimler bought Chrysler, all 3 were “American companies”. No matter how many factories the Japanese build in our country, their product remains a “Japanese” one. Sure, they employ American workers, but the profits go to Japan. People bought Japanese cars in the 70’s and 80’s because they were cheap. Today, they rival the cost of most all American vehicles. Today’s buyers are mainly yuppies and people obsessed with political correctness. As for NASCAR, there are no longer “brands” wars, based on which manufacturer built the most horsepower or aerodynamic bodies. The COT is a spec racer, fitting common templates and using nearly identical engines. Toyota was allowed to enter NASCAR because of a break down in the rules and NASCAR’s greed for roping-in a totally new segment of followers (tuner car afficianados). The 358 c.i. inch Toyota engine used in NASCAR, is a purpose-built copy of the best of Chevy, Ford and Mopar. So, in my humble opinion, you and all the others who like to send your money to Japan instead of Detroit, are part of the reason our U.S. auto industry is failing.
Colorado Springs, CO.
Major-league stock car racing fan since 1963
No makes from any manufacturer should be allowed if the production model is front wheel drive. It’s just silly.
Let Hyundai in with Genesis badging. It’s at least a real rear wheel drive car.
@BKnotts. If you get back here, I hope you’ll explain that point. I know that Joe W., a reader and commentor here- has said the same thing. I’m not sure I get that one. I’ll tell you, I had that in the Celica I wrote about and it sure came in handy in the snow. What relevance this bears to racing is something I don’t get.
I read John Keets book, The Insolent Chariots. Published around 1957. Imports were dismissed in one small chapter.
Now it turns out that the US Auto industry WAS truly insolent. The cars that they all made during the 70’s were crap. Chrysler went broke the first time, because they absolutely deserved it. GM survived because of sheer size, & the fact that they made better cars. Still crap, but better crap. I’ve never cared much for Chrysler, so anything I’d say about them would be colored by this.
GM on the other hand has been poorly served by it’s top management, with some very poor decisions. Saturn, & Hummer, being two. Saturn was a good idea, that lost it’s way. Hummer was one of the poorest corporate decisions they ever made.
GM, on a product level, is the best it’s ever been. The Corvette has finally become the Sports Car, that it was touted to be early on. They have brought Cadillac to a new position, one it’s never occupied. A car that could hold it’s own in the international market.
The thing that amazes me now about the US manufacturers, is the fact that they still believe that today’s NA$CAR can still sell cars. The COT, with it’s 50’s technology, push rod, carburated eng. is so far removed from what is available it’s laughable. If they are correct, & the great unwashed is buying Chevrolets because Dale, drove one, & now Jr. drives one. That is a sad commentary on the American consumer.
NASCAR was built W/O tons of $$ from the auto makers, & it did pretty well. No wind tunnel, no 7 post shakers, no team jets, or luxury motorhomes. I know it’s not going back to the 60’s, but if the manufacturers were to decide they had better places to spend their money, it might not be all bad.
For the record, I drive a VW, Jetta TDI Wagon. An absolutely great vehicle, & a Land Rover. My version of a Hummer.
@Jim Davidson. First- I appreciate your service to our country. Now let me address your assertions. I am far from a yuppie as a sports anchor at a conservative talk radio station. Political correctness? Being pro-Toyota in the sport is VERY politically incorrect. Speaking to the kind of political correctness you’re talking about….I think not. I’ve chosen the vehicles I have over the offerings from the big 3 because I know they won’t fall apart after 100k miles, they get the gas mileage I’m looking for, AND I got them for a better price than their so-called “American” counterparts.
Let me ask you this Jim….how’s your track record for buying American. Are you confident that the clothers you buy, the shoes you wear, the food you eat is all American? What’s wrong with buying what you believe to be the best product for your money, regardless of where it was made? What if you needed surgery, would you want the best surgeon, or the best American surgeon?
@Dawg. I cannot speak personall to the Chevy of today, but my experience with the GM products of the 80s were quite bad. You make an interesting point, and I add to that tif I you and I are competitors and you’re beating my butt because of quality, I can re-take the upper hand by making a better product. It might cost more to produce it, but if I do a good job and back it with quality ,I’ll bet I can recapture market share.
You missed my point Jim. That point is the selling out of our own country by the American people! You can’t hardly find a piece of clothing made here. Steel-making is gone, the cattle raising industry and other foodstuffs are now from the “world market” and just try to buy an “American” electronic component! None of this happened by accident. We were the world leaders in the production of all commodities, until corporate greed took over. As the wealthy lined their pockets with the brow sweat of hard working citizens, they could only envision making more money by sending our jobs to foreign markets. This column is about NASCAR’s permitting of non-American automobile manufacturers to race in their premier series. People can expound all day long about how Toyota is an “American” company, but it simply is not! I drive a Chevrolet truck (wish I owned a Corvette or Cadillac) and simply prefer to watch something besides Toyota run in NASCAR…chill out Jim. By the way, I recently had shoulder surgery by a Korean surgeon, who happens to be the best in town…but that has absolutely nothing to do with Toyotas racing in NASCAR!
Hi Jim. I bet you expected me to chime in on this one. The point about front wheel vs rear wheel drive is simple. The race cars are all rear drive. The point I made was that Toyota had never built a rear drive V8. I also made clear that I do not buy the thought that Toyota does build rear wheel drive V8s and calls them Lexis because we do not race Lexis any more than we race Lincolns or Cadillacs. I disagree with B Knotts though, because I am fine with the street versions being front wheel drives since Ford, Chevy and Dodge have built rear wheel drive V8s and still do. They just aren’t the Fusion or Impala. The Charger is a rear wheel drive V8 and is a super sweet ride. I have stated my argument for excluding Toyota from Nascar before and it is simple. They are just not part of the history of the sport. I guess I am just being an “old fogey” on this one but I like it the way it was in the late 70s through the 90s. I have no problem with all imports being sold in America, however I do think a level playing field on taxes and such would be nice. I am not an expert in this field and do not claim to be, so please no comments about my ignorance in that matter because I have already admitted it. As far as street cars go, my dad always had lot of cars around when I was growing up. I drove Fords, Chevys, Dodges, Toyotas and Datsuns. Yes Datsuns, I am 44 years old. He also had a few VWs. My favorites were always the Ford and Chevy V8s. I never understood why I could not be a Ford and Chevy guy. I am now. I have owned a few cars of my own, seven Chevys, six Fords, four Dodges and two Plymouths. I have NEVER had a lemmon in the bunch. I guess I have been very lucky but I have enjoyed them all. I have had a Mustang and a Camaro, Impalas and Tuaruses a Shadow and a Shelby Charger. I just like these cars and the recent developements have made me sad. I respect everyones right to drive what they want, but I want the same respect. I will never drive a Honda. It just isn’t me. Sorry for the long tirade here. This is just one of those “hot button issues” for me. Enjoyed the article as usual Jim. We will just have to agree to disagree on this one.
@Jim Davidson. All I was doing was answering your point. As I write this, I am as calm as a southern Oregon breeze. I actually believe we share common ground on your points concerning corporate greed.
You’re right. This was a post on Toyota’s involvement in NASCAR. So let me make sure I am unerstanding you then: your point would be a foreign auto maker has no place in NASCAR? If its because their presence will help sell product and take money out of an American’s pocket, I would tend to believe that may be overrating the influence of NASCAR over buying decisions on what is often the second most important purchase behind a home that a person will make.
I hope your recovery goes well. I can’t imagine shoulder surgery is any fun and hazarding (by way of your web address) a guess that your line of work involves physical activity, its even worse when it slows down your livelihood.
Thanks for answering. I’ll give you the last word if you so choose.
@Joe W. Well if you’re an old fogey then I’m one too, because we are the same age, I was curious about the reasoning behind your point and appreciate your “weigh in” on it. We agree to disagree agreeably and that’s the kinjd of spirited, yet civil debate I don’t mind. I wouldn’t call what you said a rant, just calling it like you see it.
While I’m obivously in the minorty here, I wouldn’t for the record call anything I’ve read here UN-civil.
Thanks Joe. Thank you all for the discussion. Reminds me of the spirited debates between my dad and uncle on politics. They disagreed on many things, but at the end of the day the brothers-in-law would give their right arms for each other.
Well said Jim. That is what I enjoy about this sight. We can have civil debate and not resort to the name calling and mean spirited sayings I see on other web sights. Great job by all. Keep up the good work.
I don’t need the last word Jim and I meant no ill will toward anyone. Just stating my opinion (like Joe W’s) that NASCAR was purely an American sport (even though Jaguar and a couple of other foreign makes) appeared in some very early races. Moonshiners didn’t wheel any Toyotas through the southeastern woods and early on, racing in our country was about brand battles. We have the freedom of choice in this great nation and my choice is to stick with the companies that built this country’s strength, whenever I possibly can. I still love NASCAR, especially those few races when the bowties, blue ovals (and used-to-be Mopars) can beat Kyle Busch and Brian Vickers!
what ever happened to good old fashion racing where GM ,Ford & Mopars went at it lap after lap & we pulled for our favorite driver driving an American made & named car, like every thing else Jap cars do not belong in a uniquely American sport, I think the original rules said it is a competition between American made & badged cars , toyota is not one, when peoople look back & make the decision to buy American then the car makers will rebound ad when Nascar relizes fans do not want to see the junk they are giving them to watch maybe things wil change Nascar must go bck to their roots and reinvent itself or they will be the next ones looking for a bailout
Now this is a conversation I can really sink my teeth into. Last month, I bought a new 2009 Chevy Impala, and I gotta tell ya it is one sweet ride. The smooth acceleration of that carbureted V8 is something to experience for yourself. Although I’m most impressed by the smoothness of the transmission as it delivers power to the rear wheels. I really got to hand it those Canadians, they did a fine job of assemblying the Mexican made Chevy parts in my Impala. I knew GM was on to something when they introduced planned obsolesence in the 60’s. Even though I don’t expect my Chevy to last more than a few years, it is my patriot duty as an American consumer to prop up the American auto industry by purchasing a new vehicle every 5 years. Since I’m supporting them, I’m so happy that the company decided to save all that money on salaries by outsourcing the jobs off to foreign countries, even though it costs them a fortune in shipping parts all over Nort America. I feel really good knowing that the profits they made went to an American company, even if that company avoided paying US income taxes on the revenue they made on those Canadian built Impalas. Ironically, my stupid brother just bought a new Toyota Camry with a wimpy little V6 powering the front wheels. The fool had the nerve to call me up to brag about how great his new car was. He boasted that his Camry was designed, engineered, and built in America by real American workers. He said that the 80% US part content contributed to making it one of the best cars on the road. He bragged of body panels and engine components made of the finest US made steel. He said that the American made plastics, glass, fabrics and leathers combined to make a vehicle that will just as good many years down the road as it was when new. My brother even photocopied portions of the owners manual that stated when the vehicle was 10 years old that the air bag sensors would need to be serviced, and again every ten years thereafter. I thought that was just a bit optimistic, everyone knows that cars only last about seven years, right? Speaking of that owners manual, it was pretty well written for Japs, they must have hired a few English teachers to write it. That was enough to upset me thoroughly, so I called into question my little brothers patriotism and thats when things turned ugly. Can you believe he had the nerve to tell me that he was a better patriot than me? he said that when he bought that Toyota, he helped to employ over 700,000 Americans, from parts suppliers to assembly workers to dealership mechanics. Then he told me that everytime Toyota sold a car in America. they paid taxes in America and that it was good for the economy. I told him he was crazy, spending billions in bailout money to save GM and Chrysler is what is good for the economy. And when it comes to NASCAR, I think we should go back to the good ole days like 1957 when American automakers like Jaguar were running NASCAR.